Sorry I don’t have quotes. But Legion mentioned it was a defense mechanism, to see as a means for survival (less than attacking the geth). And it ended up having unforseen consequences. It didn’t seem so inconsistent to me, I suppose.
I see the destruction of the megastructure as a labotomy almost - you lose part of your intellect, you aren’t thinking the same, you aren’t going to do the same things.
I am aware that many people are willing to not view the changes that the devs made to the geth as inconsistent to the geth’s essence as articulated in ME2, which is why I am so vocal that I do.
also i am stubborn and was sorely disappointed that ME2 was not all about the geth : )
I’m guessing that you might be referring to this conversation:
Legion: The geth were building a megastructure to house all geth, store all memories. It was to end our isolation from each other.
Shep: And the quarian flotilla attacked it?
Legion: Yes. A significant amount of programs were installed when creators began bombing. We did not have sufficient surplus hardware to save them all. Some programs could not be recovered.
Shep: Is that what made the geth desperate enough to work for the Reapers?
Legion: Yes. Imagine that for every one of your people lost on Earth, your own intelligence dimmed. The creators’ attack narrowed the geth perspective. Self-preservation took precedence.
Shep: You were afraid you’d be wiped out.
Legion: We do not experience fear as you would, but we have no desire to be exterminated.
The problem that I have with this is such: The Legion platform houses 1K+ geth programmes — they refer to it as a “network within our own hardware” at one point in ME2 — and in ME2 it is separated completely from the rest of the geth. Yet it is still able to state that it seeks to build its own future, that it questions organics’ desire for individuality, that it does not agree with the heretics’ decision to ally themselves with the Old Machines in exchange for their technology, &c. If 1K+ geth can recognise this, why would billions of geth not? (I forget whether they state how many geth remain in ME3, but if a single server hub can “run millions of geth in communion”, then their number must be huge.)
This is a lot of rewriting of the geth in order to fit the story that the devs wished to tell and little more, something that is a problem throughout ME3. It is only once one dismisses other possibilities — that the geth would choose to fight back on their own, that whether the geth would choose to go to the Old Machines and then accept their technology would be dependent on whether the heretics were overwritten or destroyed in ME2 (as, again, asinine as that would be, I could accept it as Legion noted the possibility that they could be wrong in ME2), etc. — that one could even get close to accepting this as feasible.
fluidfyre replied to your post: I meant that the geth turn “stupid” in the sense that each unit regresses in intelligence due to the lack of Reaper code, not that they were literally stupid (because if I wish real life stupid people had their caliber of engineering prowess).
Legion mentioned that one of the quarian attacks destroyed a large number of their programs (the collective server they were building), and significantly decreased their intellect as a result. For why losing Reaper code would decrease their intellect
The quarians destroyed the geth’s megastructure, and a large number of geth who were housed within were lost, but there is no reason that they could not rebuild. They are programmes. They may have lost a large number and decreased somewhat in intelligence, but it is not as though they were reverted to pre-sentience. There still existed outside the megastructure geth server hubs, mobile platforms, ships, &c which could convene for more intelligent processing.
Further: the geth will achieve their own future. Technology is not a straight line. There are many paths to the same end. Accepting another’s path blinds you to alternatives.
There is only one reason that the geth would choose to accept the Old Machines’ technology: The devs decided that they needed a reason for geth to be attacking the quarians and Shepard’s people when the geth through Legion were already shown to be generally peaceful and not wishing to destroy their creators or organics. Yet the geth still would have retaliated should they have been attacked, as they did before, even without Reaper code. The devs did not need to force something so inconsistent with the geth as they existed by the end of ME2 (especially considering that ME2 was already quite a change to the geth, though more consistent with ME) in order to give cause for renewed geth-quarian hostilities. They especially did not need the geth to desire individuality in the end, despite questioning it before and going against what the geth
are had been.
Legion: To be isolated within a single platform is to be reduced. We see less. Comprehend less. It is quieter.
Shep: If you exchange data — memories — how do you keep track of which ones are yours? How do you stay “you”?
Legion: There is only “we”. We were created to share data among ourselves. The difference between geth is perspective. We are many eyes looking at the same things. One eye will see things another does not and make different judgments.
Q:I meant that the geth turn "stupid" in the sense that each unit regresses in intelligence due to the lack of Reaper code, not that they were literally stupid (because if I wish real life stupid people had their caliber of engineering prowess).
The geth were intelligent prior to the Reaper code, and the idea introduced in ME3 that they could become “true AIs” and “individuals” with the addition of the Reaper code made no sense. Geth are programmes. Each individual programme is a geth. Most geth exist in servers which can house millions of geth, not in mobile platforms like the primes, colossi, Legion, etc. Did each platform, server hub, etc. become an individual, or did each geth programme within the platform? No explanation is provided.
According to tweets, EDI and the geth technically survive in Destroy ending….it’s just that their Reaper Code is disabled…
so that means the geth are stupid again and…………..hopefully EDI hasn’t been reduced to a VI…
EDI became sentient before she had reaper code in her so…
nnnnnnnnnnnnnone of this makes any sense :|
The geth were not “stupid” pre-Reaper code, unless one means that they were stupid to go back on their self-determinism and accept another’s technology, esp the Old Machines’.
EVERYONE—-MEET STEREOTYPICAL KAI LENG MEME!
I guess slapping the word ‘stereotypical’ on the label makes it an excuse to get away with stuff like this
And he’s not even Japanese :V
The only thing adding the “stereotypical” label indicates is that you (the oh-so-‘edgy’ OP) acknowledge this is some hot racist bullshit but you just don’t give a damn because you think ~it’s funny~~~~. Which just means you’re just dumb and gross no matter how you try to defend it. GTFO with this garbage.
FUCK YOU OP
and fuck every piece of shit who clicked like or reblogged this shit without criticism.
goddammit i have to put up with enough of this kind of shit in real life.
there have been white people who have tried to speak in a stereotypical Asian accent like this to me before. it is not a good feeling. i felt belittled, mocked, and yes, even a bit afraid. behind this kind of othering and alienation there’s an implicit threat of violence. i was born in america and have lived here all my life yet when that group of frat boys approached me they didn’t see a person.
they just saw a stereotype. and they were laughing the whole time. to them it was a joke, just like this is ostensibly supposed to be.
jokes can be and often are harmful.
so if you find this shit funny, unfollow me now. go, begone. and then sit your racist ass down and think long and hard about your life.
There were exactly three decent things about the inclusion of KL:
- An actual Han/Chinese character;
- Who was not stereotypically EA-cultured (no random lines resembling four-character phrases, no confucianist nonsense, &c);
- And did not have the awful stereotypical Chinese accent that Western media enjoy using.
It’s nice to see that people thought that we really needed the latter, and with a bad Japanese one as well (because all of east asia is the same!).
IT MUST BE OK BECAUSE KAI LENG IS A VILLAIN AND NOT A GOOD CHARACTER LIKE KASUMI, WHO WOULD NEVER BE MOCKED LIKE THIS :O
It annoys me how the Quarians are treated with such disdain and racism over what happened with the Geth and the tragic loss of their homeworld.
It is because the quarians chose to be insular migrants rather than finding suitable planets to build a colony where they can rebuild their civilisation, become contributing members of the galactic economy — batarians have no problems trading with other races outside Council space — and eventually adapt to a new environment that they are treated with suspicion and disdain. As the geth had said, “The home of the creators is where the creators are. Their place of origin is not relevant — only where they choose to go together.”
Just to remind OP of some of the things the quarians are known for other than the geth, all from the codices:
Codex: Aliens: Non-Council Races: Quarians
Other species tend to look down on the quarians for creating the geth and for the negative impact their fleet has when it enters a system.
Codex: Aliens: Non-Council Races: Quarians: Economy
The quarians earn income in creative ways. Because the government is obliged to provide food, water, air, and medical support for every individual, the Conclave strategically determines the course of the Fleet to bring in resources and income. A species who suspects the Migrant Fleet is heading towards their space often offers a “gift” of surplus starships, fuel, and resources to alter course.
As the fleet passes through the a system, swarms of mining vessels work over asteroids for metals and siliceous materials and cometary bodies for water ice and organics. Quarian miners are adept at locating and strip-mining space-borne resources. This sparks conflict with corporations already working the system. Large mining concerns spend millions on lobbyists and public relations portraying the quarians as locusts, devouring the resources of a system before moving on.
The greatest asset of the quarians is their rarefied skills. Most are experienced miners. Due to their life of perpetual salvage and repair, they are skilled engineers and technicians. More than once, they very corporations that lobby against the quarians have made back room deals with the Fleet, arranging for skilled quarians to fill space engineering jobs that other species would demand higher wages for. Quarians are widely hated among the working classes. “The quarians are coming to take our jobs” is a common response to the Fleet’s approach.
It would be a wonder that any race would welcome the quarian Migrant Fleet into their system given such a history. Whilst I am sure that the Fleet’s actions may not be as terrible as a lobbyist might describe it, were the Fleet to arrive in, say, an asari-controlled system and then immediately proceed to strip mine asteroids within that system for resources — asteroids which may have been slated for exploitation by asari corporations — thereby completely going around the system already in place, I could not blame the asari of that system for being incredibly peeved with the quarians, wanting them out ASAP, and harbouring bad feelings for them later.
What happened with the Geth was an accident, meanwhile you have the Batarians enslaving people, the Turians and Salarians unleashing the Genophage among other things and well pretty much a lot of what humans have done is not always ethical.
The quarians were kicked out of the Council — unlike the batarians, who chose to leave the Council because of disagreement of relativism vs universalism over slavery — because they defied the Council ban on building AIs. This is the only action by the quarians which could be deemed an accident and the Council was right to penalise them for doing so. (Note that the quarians tried to keep this under wraps through martial law and did not approach the Council until they were driven offworld.) The Council similarly made a decision to not intervene in the quarian/geth dispute because the geth were not a threat to multiple races. This is unlike the rachni, who were threatening all Council races following the activation of a dormant mass relay, or the krogan, who were expanding rapidly and threatening asari and, later, and turian worlds, and all but declaring war against the salarian and asari Council.
Since you wish to compare the quarians’ illegal act with the acts of other races: The krogan did what the salarians engaged them to do — destroy the rachni. The salarians were a part of the Council at that point, so there is no way that the asari were not in agreement. The turians did what the Council engaged them to do — suppress the krogan. The salarians who gave the turians the genophage were a part of the Council at that point, so there is no way that the asari and salarian Council did not condone their action. The turians were even granted a Council seat for their success. Aside from splittist/isolationist terrorist organisations officially condemned by the human government — and whose most disgusting acts have all been against humans rather than Council races — we have yet to be shown that humans have done anything in violation of Council law.
Out of all the races, the Quarians were generally the least racist of all the species.
This is in no way supported by the game, and playing which race is the most racist when we’re shown such a small pool of individuals of the various races seems futile. What is supported is the intense racism felt by many quarians toward the geth — the people they created and whom many would deny an existence for no reason than their fighting for their lives when their creators tried to destroy them.
But we can say who has been demonstrated to be the least racist by fact of not having the emotions to hold such hatred: The geth. “Geth believe all intelligent life should self-determinate.” “Organics fear that which is different. It is a hardware error. A reflex of your flesh. We accept the creators’ hate.” “Organic history suggests they will continue to hate us [….] We do not hate them. We want to share experiences as equals.”
I feel like the way they get treated is hypocritical and it pisses me off.
It’s valid that you might feel that way given the skewed manner in which you already view the quarians by blinding yourself to their faults.
About the “choosing to be migrants” bit:
They didn’t choose it. They can’t settle on another planet because they can’t adapt to the atmosphere. The only atmosphere that’s is close to Rannoch’s is on the Flotilla(I think) and even then, they are in serious risk if there is a breach in their suits.
They’re trying to reclaim their homeland; the only planet that they can live on without their suits and masks. They have no choice but to be migrants.
I’m just going to quote myself from further down this thread:
There is almost three centuries (human time) between their leaving Rannoch and Shepard meeting the Admiralty Board, yet they are unable to find a single habitable planet in the Terminus Systems, which would not be under Council control? I find this difficult to believe, when humans found themselves uninhabited systems 250 years later. It is far more likely that colonisation was not as high a priority amongst the number of quarians necessary to gain a vote to attempt to do so.
- Kolyat: I brought a prayer book. Commander, would you care to join me?
- Shepard: srsly wtf kolyat you know that I can't read drell writing.
- Kolyat: Oh.
- Kolyat: Right.
- Kolyat: Because this is paper....
- Thane: *still dying of recent perforation*
- Kolyat: Guide this one, Kalahira, and she will be a companion to you as she was to me.
- Shepard: Kolyat? Why did that last verse say "she?"
- Kolyat: The prayer was not for him, Commander. He has already asked forgiveness for the lives he has taken.
- Kolyat: His wish was for you.
- Shepard: oh for the l-
- Shepard: Your father was very a stubborn man. -_-
even from the friend standpoint it is not good
when shep first meets thane, he is actively trying to end his life by taking out bad people — “restoring the balance of his life”, "making [the universe] bright before [he] dies", etc. if kolyat was kept from killing joram talid, thane no longer has such a suicidal approach, but it is clear that he still wishes to rid the universe of darkness. (should kolyat succeed and escape, it is clear that thane does not intend to succumb to his disease — he says that he will either die on the mission or a few months after, i.e. he plans to resume his attempt to end his life whilst taking down people such as nassana dantius.) for him to decide to just wait until he succumbs to his disease rather than help fight the darkness that now actually affects those whom he cares for i.e. his son when he was willing to assist to “protect humans [he’d] never met, from aliens no one knows anything about, by going to a place no one’s ever returned from” before even should his health be less than perfect is such a reversal of character that it’s disgusting.